Divorce can be messy, especially when there are children involved. It not only takes a toll on the separating couple, it also affects the children caught in the middle. In this episode, we dive deep into this sensitive topic of divorce and children. Bethany Mortellaro is joined by a special guest, whose identity is kept anonymous, who shares her story and struggles navigating this difficult time in her life. How do you handle the conversations with your children when going through a divorce? How do you navigate the challenges of a new family set-up? What are the outlets that can support you through the process? We find out the answers to these questions and more in today’s conversation. At the heart of it, this episode hopes to change the narrative of what divorce or separate families look like. Tune in and find the strength to come out of this tough period stronger with your children.
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Navigating The Challenges Of Divorce With Children
We are going to be doing things a little differently. We are diving into the sensitive topic of divorce and the children involved. Our guest is someone who is well-known, respected, and liked in our community. I want to respect that. She is somebody whose story hits close to home for me. My parents were divorced when I was thirteen years old. I am 41 years old this 2023. I can honestly tell you I am still in therapy, overcoming the absolute stress of being the child who is caught in the middle.
I love both of my parents dearly. I want a relationship and a healthy one with both of my parents while they had their struggles through their divorce. I’m a grown adult. I got a husband and children. I can relate to their story. I can find empathy and compassion. I don’t want to be in the middle of it. I find that oftentimes, it’s the children who suffer the most because we are in the middle of it. Let’s get into this. Welcome.
Hello.
How are you?
Good.
Thank you for being on the show. Take us to this. It is fair to say your story pertaining to your divorce is one that comes with betrayal and bitterness. You have taken a different approach when it comes to your children. I have had my salon for several years. Please don’t think I have not been exposed to all kinds of stories of divorce, betrayal, hurt, anger, and frustration. Take us to your story.
I was married for several years. It is a big part of my life. I have children in that, 1 being a little younger and 1 being in mid-preteen age. It is a different perspective on how you would go about this process because as they say, when they are younger, the transition is a little bit easier. I’m taking you back to my past. I was also a child of divorce, but my parents divorced when I was two. I have no recollection of them being together. In that way, I didn’t know them any way other than separate parents.
What was hard for me personally as a child was that my parents were in two different states. I only saw my mom nine months out of the year. That is hard. I knew going into marriage, you never look at it that it is going to end or divorce, but I knew what I had experienced, and I never wanted to create the type of feelings that I felt as a child, having gone through stepparents, divorce, and things of that nature. That was what led me to want to do things differently, having children, and how I wanted to be a good example for them.
When you think of divorce, everyone thinks it is extremely negative. It is the divide. I would share my story with people, and they would be like, “That is not going to work.” It almost made it seem like, “I’m going to show you it is possible.” I want to change the narrative of what divorce or separate families look like. That is why I wanted to share. I am more of a private person. I don’t like to share my business. At the same time, if this type of information can help anyone out there, I’m willing to share that. To answer your question, you have to put the kids first. I know that is the most common thing everybody says, “You have to put the kids first.”
It is not always, especially when you are caught up in your emotions.
You cannot make decisions based on your emotions. That is the work that has to be done. Before you make decisions on whatever it is, you got to get through your own personal pain, struggles, and hurt because that portion of whatever happened in the marriage doesn’t have anything to do with the children.
You cannot make decisions based on your emotions. That is the work that has to be done before you make decisions on whatever it is. You've got to get through your own personal pain, struggles, and hurt. Click To Tweet
Thinking about that, I’m not speaking to the ones that have been in very volatile situations, the physical. I cannot speak from that perspective because you do need to protect your kids and yourself. There are some of those situations. I’m not speaking to those situations. I’m speaking to situations where even if betrayal or things happen, it is not something where the kids have to be removed in an abrupt manner.
It always is going to come down to looking within yourself. Before I was ready to communicate with my kids and make these decisions, I had to do the work within myself to get through a lot of that pain, bitterness, resentment, and betrayal because if I led this process through that, it would affect the kids in a negative way.
Before I even told the kids anything, I had to do the work within myself. When I had those conversations with the kids, I said, “Mom and Dad are no longer going to be together. We are getting divorced.” I wasn’t mad, frustrated, or angry because I had to be willing to take on whatever they were going to say. A big deal for me is it took a little bit of time.
Could you say there was maybe tense energy in the house at times? Yes, but if you center your life around the children’s emotional well-being, you can deal with that stuff away from them. When they are not around, you can handle some of the things you need to handle. You can look for outside help to get you through those hard times.
My kids did not need to see those struggles. There is no reason they needed to see those struggles. I don’t mean don’t show them you are sad. Emotions are okay to show them. They don’t need to be involved with this process until you are both in a place where you can make decisions from a non-emotional standpoint.
What did you do for your outlets?
I did have a marriage counselor. At times, I reached out to him. The self-development needed to come from a lot of reading. I did a lot of reading and podcasts. There’s a lot of support out there. You can’t financially go to a therapist all the time. I highly recommend a therapist with or without a marriage falling apart. There are many resources. It is friendships I trusted that I could rely on letting them hear me or maybe even them giving me advice that has gone through this in a positive way themselves. A lot of self-work, however that looks for you. I dove into that deeply.
In this situation, I was fortunate that there were close people in our world who also had a healthy split. I took a lot of advice from them, and how they were able to work on certain things, I couldn’t quite see yet. I had not gotten that far. You got to surround yourself with people that are not there to be like, “You should do this.” Coming from more of like, “I’m supporting you, but I’m going to guide you to what is in the best interest of the children.”
Find the support that is going to look at the whole dynamic and also take your children into consideration of what is most important on how to navigate that. I would say all of those things. Therapy and podcasts are great. There is so much information out there. Honestly, there is no reason why you have to feel like you are alone in that process.
Did your partner at the time have the same approach, or did you have to get him on board?
A lot of people say, “That is easy to do if it is amicable and both parties are child-centered.” In the beginning, there were some challenges. I felt like I needed to be the one to bring to light how to navigate this. I was fortunate that he was willing to listen, but it was me doing all the research on how to communicate with them and how to tell them.
It took a little bit of time to get on the same page. Ultimately, we are on the same page. He knows I have been the leader in the children and how to raise them in their well-being. He has allowed me to lead that. In some ways, it was the same. There were a lot of conversations to be had. I had to put all my shit and stuff aside.
When I had a conversation with him, it was child-centered. It was two parents having to have a conversation. What is best for the kids? It is not about what he did, how could he do this, or him coming back at me about whatever challenges he was having with me. It was like, “All crap aside, what is going to be best for the children?” You have to constantly keep saying that through a lot of the different experiences you are having.
I could see myself. Even my hamster wheel is going off like, “That is a hard place to put these emotions on the side here. We are going to park those over here, but let’s get to the nuts and bolts of what we have to get to with the kids. Bethany, please don’t show your anger while you are doing this. Even though you are angry and signing, you want to strangle this person.” It is like a whole mental gymnastics in your head while you are having these conversations. That is very challenging.
There have been times we would have conversations, and I found myself thinking, “We wouldn’t be in this situation.” If we felt we were getting off focus, it was time to take a break. We needed to separate and not talk about it anymore. I needed to work on getting my emotions controlled and vice versa. Did we have to do that a couple of times? Absolutely.
For me, what kept always showing up was if I was a child in this situation, what would that look like for me? What would I want that to look like for me? When you can think about that, you are leading from that place, not from the place of like, “I’m your parent.” When you’re in a place of frustration or anger, I know a lot of parents. I see them. They want their kids to be on their side. They want that support, especially through those older years, like thirteen. I’m well aware. They have a lot more questions. They are a lot more in tune with what is going on.
You almost think, “They get it. I can tell them.” They love their parents the same. You never want to make them feel like they have ever had to choose. You never want to show your parent that other parent in a bad light. At that moment, you think it is great because you got the support system from your kids, but that is not what is best for your kids.
Children love their parents the same. You never want to make them feel like they've ever had to choose. Click To Tweet
It is beyond damaging. I am a product of that here because it was like, “Take my side and hear my story.” The other parent was like, “Take my side and hear my story.” You are caught up in this. A child is not developed mentally. Why can’t I spit this out? I haven’t experienced life. It is the point I’m trying to say. Your mental ability is not developed yet. There are many parts of your brain to understand all these other things. It makes the child’s world more fearful and scary.
They are unsure. They feel a little like, “Where am I? What am I going to be? My parents aren’t together.” They are already going through all those emotions. They want to know what happened. My kids wanted to know, especially my older one, what happened. For me, you hear all the time, “I’m not going to lie. I’m going to tell them the truth.” You don’t want to lie to your kids, but you don’t have to give the details of what is unfolding.
We spoke about this before. I applaud you for this because I asked you the question. What if they are 35 years old, are married, and have children of their own, and they are like, “Mom, it is time to sit me down and tell me what happened, I want the truth, and I want it now?” You said, “I will not do that.”
Would I tell them maybe past experiences that might have happened to me because they need to relate because they are going through their own challenges and life? I have a whole lot of life stories to share, and there are certain circumstances I can share about pasts, but I’m not going to share specifics that had to deal with their father and me, not when it comes to that type of situation. I’m 40-some, and my mom is my best friend now. If she was even now to sit there and tell me about all these horrible things that happened with the relationship between my dad and her, what am I gaining from that? They are still my parents, and I love them. I wouldn’t want to know that information.
You can still teach your kids lessons about life. I will share parts of our relationship, especially if they are struggling in a relationship of their own. I will share experiences and things we have done and gone through. That is a joint not trying to take a side type of thing, but they don’t need to know because it doesn’t matter what happened.
You don’t want to be the one who taints the image of their parents.
If they are a good parent, their relationship is good, and they have whatever that relationship looks like, as long as they are showing up as a parent, that is all that matters. It doesn’t matter how he was as a husband or who he is in business. How is he as a parent? That is what matters. We even had some circumstances happen, and the kids came to me and expressed some things.
Could I jump, “Your dad was like that, and he has always been like that?” No, I still support him. I still want to show him in the best light possible as a father. If there is something I need to address, I will bring it to his attention and say, “These are some things that the kids are sharing.” Knowing I can trust him that he is not going to share because he knows that if that ever got broken, I will no longer share and help keep this a unified relationship.
We are no longer in a romantic relationship, but we are still connected. We are still a family. That is how I have always thought about this. Think of it as a family member. You have many family members, brothers, sisters, parents, uncles, and aunts. You don’t get along with all of them. There have been maybe some mishaps that have happened in your family, but they are your family.
Unless it has been something that has been traumatizing to the point of no return, and still, I feel like you can do the work to work through that, but there is no reason why you can’t still have that love and respect for this person. You married them. You were with them. You loved them at one point. They are the father of your children. You need to make sure that, for the sake of the children, you keep that relationship unified.
How I have always looked at that is that he is a family member. That is what he is. He is still a family member because he is the father of my children. Does he frustrate me? Does he annoy me and vice versa? Yes. Am I triggered by certain things? Yes. Those conversations cannot be had around the children. Sometimes space is all you need, and you need to set more boundaries. It is trying to navigate that but always keeping it child-centered on every decision you make.
Always keep the children the center and focus on every decision. Be child-centered on every decision that you make. Click To Tweet
Was there ever a time when you needed to set a boundary with your children’s father, and you came with that resistance and nervousness like, “This is going to create a new wave?”
That was also the dynamic of my relationship as I was able to separate and come into my own strength and growth. It always comes down to your own personal growth. If you play the victim, and I say that sensitively, and never take accountability to make your life better and move on with forgiveness so that you don’t harbor all these negative feelings, it is only helping you in the long run. It helps your children, but who wants to carry around resentment and anger? No one wants to feel that.
I have had to learn to create a lot of boundaries and am nervous because of the dynamic of our relationship for so long. I maybe didn’t always do that. I didn’t speak my opinions or voice, but now I am able to because of the work I have done. There was a point he had come in frustrated, but I felt that the way he was speaking to me or the way he had come in and mentioned some things, I said, “If you are going to be in this energy, you can get out. You don’t need to be here.” I didn’t say it yelling. I was like, “When you are in a better space, we can talk about it, but I don’t need that energy in the house.”
I’m not going to say that there hasn’t been a couple of times when the kids haven’t witnessed us raising our voice. It is reality. I usually have a conversation with them about emotions, like I have yelled at my kids and like, “That is not how I wanted to navigate that.” They got to see we are human too. I will never speak negatively about him in front of them. I will never do that. Even if I’m thinking about it, I will never say it to them.
We are not sharing it. We are going to keep it all inside. When it came to the point of telling the children, “Mommy and Daddy are not going to be married anymore,” how did they react to that? How did you handle it in that moment?
I’m a researcher. I’m like, “What is the best way to tell them?” I can tell you how I knew when I wasn’t ready to tell them. It was when we decided we were not going to be together anymore. The thought of my family and having to tell them, I would immediately start crying thinking about it. I knew, at that moment, I was not in the place to do it. We co-nested for her longer than we should have.
Co-nesting is sleeping in separate bedrooms.
Co-nesting is we are living under the same roof, but we are no longer together. Another form of co-nesting I thought we would possibly be able to do, and I did entertain it was, at the time, he had been dating someone. We discussed that when it was his time with the kids, he would stay in the family house with the kids. I would go and let stay with family or friends. When it was my time, I would be in the family house, and he would be staying at his girlfriend’s. That is another form of co-nesting.
If you can’t financially afford two homes, it is a way you can get a small apartment. Even though nowadays, that is as expensive. You could stay with friends or family. It will help financially. You got to be willing to share the home. For us, we were co-nesting under the same house for a while. That takes a whole other level of self-work. That is a lot. I’m not going to say that would work for everybody if anyone ever wanted to know that. That is specific, and it does take a lot.
When I knew it was time to tell them is when I could think in my head, “I’m going to tell them.” I could navigate how I would think it would go. I wasn’t about ready to break down. I wasn’t emotionally distraught over it. One of the things I read, I was like, “This is genius.” They said, “Do not tell them in the home. Do not tell them in any place they frequent. Don’t tell them that you go to every single day or a lot. Take them to a place they have never been and a place you are not going to go to again.” It is going to stick with them for the rest of their life. They are going to remember that for the rest of their life. To have that done in the home that they are going to be in, I didn’t want to do that.
It is supposed to be their safe place.
We did it together. That is huge to do it together. We took them to a park they had never been to and told them separately. The reason why we told them separately is because their age was different. If they are of similar age, you could tell them together, and that might be good for support. For us, there was a big age gap. We decided to tell them separately it was handled differently by each of them.
We used our friends as an example, which was great because it was a positive example of divorce. We said, “Yes.” He was like, “Okay. Can I go play on this tree?” It was not a lot of questions. The older one was upset. He cried. The moment he cried, you cry. We assured him that it would be okay. We are always a family. That would never change, and everything was going to be okay. We would navigate this the best that we can and always put them first. At that moment, it was shock and sadness. He had a hard time that day. It was hard. Support, love, and reassurance are key.
I will say one more thing that has been key through that process. We forget they are human. They have feelings and are part of this. It is not their fault that you are divorced. The biggest thing you have to remember is that whatever you are dealing with is because it is a relationship that is not working, but you need to take their feelings into account and get their feedback. We think we know what is best for them, and we navigate life thinking that, but we don’t ask them.
After his transition had happened and he moved out, I learned from another friend of mine to have a calendar upfront. They can see who is where, what, and when, like, “Where am I? What day am I? Who is going there?” They see what day they are going to be there and navigate that. I check in with them, “How is this going for you? Is there any feedback? What is working for you? What is not working for you? Are you sad?”
One of the things that you want to do is through the process. I don’t mean right away. I mean ongoingly, check in with the kids and ask them how it is going for them. What are they going through? How are they feeling? How is the transition working for them? It is important to take their thoughts into consideration. You think you know what is best, but that’s not always the case. If they are older, they deserve to have their voice heard.
They are now going to dictate how everything plays out.
Kids are going to try to manipulate a situation. If they have more fun over at someone’s house or there is more going on at this house, I feel like, as a parent, you can weed that out. One of the things that their father and I always said is, “Kids are going to try to manipulate. It is common when you split homes.” Trying to stay on the same page as much as possible is important.
I know that is challenging sometimes. Sometimes there is one parent that doesn’t want to do that. You can only do the best you can do from that standpoint. Coming from a place to that other parent explaining why it is important, telling them it is not about him, it is about the kids, and always bringing it to that perspective. Hopefully, after they have gone through their own challenges, they will start to get on board with that.
I remember checking in with my oldest about how the transition and how he was feeling about it. Going into a new home, they didn’t feel like that was their home for a bit. It takes time to create memories and feel like a home. It was Dad’s place. They wanted to be in their family home. Some of it is going to take time. We have had to make some changes based on the feedback from the kids. This is fast-forwarding, and I’m not saying every parent can do it, but coming down to holidays, vacations, and things where both parents don’t want to miss out on those important holidays.
It is incredible that you guys still vacation together as a family. Holidays together as a family. You are putting the children first.
I will tell you about the vacation. I’m not saying every vacation has to be done. 1 to 2 a year is sufficient. It could be a couple of days. If you can’t pull that off, at least have a family day every once in a while.
It is maybe a theme park, park, or dinner. Start with that first.
I know vacations a lot. Some people would laugh at that. We have done a lot of growing to get to that point. I would never have been able to do that when it was in the newer, fresh situation where my emotions were still struggling to be in his presence for that long of a time in close quarters. Your kids have a voice in that. My youngest said to their dad, “The Easter Bunny is coming. I want you to be at the house when the Easter Bunny comes in the morning.”
I could not imagine if that was the request of my kid for me to say, “You can’t.” I might say, “You don’t have to stay in the night, but come early in the morning. Come at 7:00 in the morning. I will wait for you.” That is what the child wanted. It is not about me. It is about them. It is the same thing with any of the holidays. I get it. You split. You get Christmas. I get Christmas. You get this. I get that. Could you do that? Absolutely. Why can’t the other parent come over and watch the presents be opened on Christmas morning?
Every family dynamic is completely different. Do both of your families get along that his family, your family still now in this new transition of life, can all be in the same room together?
Yes. My mom was going through a lot of emotional space with everything. I had to talk with her. I was like, “This isn’t about what happened. This is about the kids. If you make this an awkward situation, it is awkward for me and the kids. Put your feelings aside. I know you are there to protect me, but this is what I need from you. I need you to look at him as the father of the children. Respect all of the good that he is.” There is so much good in people. We forget to see the good in people. We all have flaws and make mistakes. It is what it is.
It is like I always say to my husband, “We are imperfect people raising imperfect children. We are doing the best job that we can do on the days that we’re down and struggling.” Children come with struggles. You are not meant to seem like it is all roses from your side. I’m sure you have had to overcome many obstacles and challenges.
It always comes back to self-work. If there is anything you can do for yourself, not only doing this type of situation where you are having to deal with divorce, raising children, raising children single, or even bringing on another relationship whenever that time comes for you, it always comes down to doing self-work. It is never about the other person. Even if you have all the reasons to blame them for certain situations, you are in charge of the way you feel. Do you want to give the power to them all the time with the way you are feeling? Do you want to take responsibility, look at how you want to live your life the best way you can and raise the kids the best way you can?
All of our children will be in therapy for something, but at the same time, I want to look back and know that maybe there was some sacrifice on my end I had to do. I had to put myself in some situations where I was uncomfortable, but it was what was best for the children. It is his weekend. I can’t go to a sporting event because he is dating somebody, and I can’t do that.” If that is where I’m at, I’m going to get uncomfortable because my kids want me there.
Have you guys gone to family therapy together? Have your children go to a therapist?
It was one of those things automatically. I did put my kids. For my youngest one, I assessed. I saw how that one was. I didn’t feel it was necessary, but for my older one, I did. It was important because they might not be able to feel comfortable to talk to you about everything. It took someone to come in and to have an outlet beyond mom and dad. I did that.
Can I say it was the saving grace of anything? No, I feel like it was the way we continue to show up and be parents to him in the way we navigate things. That is important. If you can financially afford them to seek therapy, it is another person and outlet for them. It is important to have. At a young age, I don’t know. You have to assess that situation. More questions are going to come up as they get older. As they start to realize things and see things from different perspectives, they will ask questions, “Why aren’t Dad and Mom together?”
I don’t need to be detailed in how I navigated that, but the broader picture of that is, “Dad and mom were not making each other happy anymore. We all want to be happy in our life. There was a point in time when we were not making each other happy anymore. At that point, we felt it was the best decision to separate and not be together.” That is what I said initially.
I’m sure as they get older, there might be more detailed questions about that. Look at the bigger picture. Divorce might have happened based on one specific thing, but I can assure you any marriage that fails, there is a fault in both parties in the bigger scheme of things. Realizing that because it is what is best, I can look back now and say, “It is what was best.” Maybe from his perspective, it probably is the same as well in time. It doesn’t feel that way at the beginning.
A divorce might have happened based on one specific thing, but in any marriage that fails, there is a fault in both parties in the bigger scheme of things. Click To Tweet
I know you have done your research, educated yourself in therapy and books, and gotten yourself to that place of balance. Through the course of all of this, have you seen the kids regress in their outbursts, or are they showing they are not happy?
With my youngest, no. I also think that is a lot because of the way we have chosen to parent and still be as connected as a family in those ways. With my older, it is challenging because he also hit puberty. He hit the teenage years. There is a lot going on in that world with him. Do I think that the divorce played a part in some of what he is struggling with? Yes, I could say that. There is this bubble burst. No kid is a teenager who probably thinks their parents are perfect. The idea that my parents are still together, we live this life, and I see all these kids that have divorced and the divide. Divorce is at a high percentage. Tons of his friends have divorced parents.
He has been exposed to this side.
He heard the stories and the stories he shared. It is another reason why I feel it is important to share my story, and there are other ways to navigate this.
Even though you sat him down together, I’m sure there was still a bit of that insecurity inside of him, like, “Is it going to be like my friend Timmy or Johnny and what they are going through? I don’t want that to be part of my life.”
What was funny is he was like, “This isn’t anything like the way that my friends. It is weird.” I’m like, “What is weird about it for you?” He was like, “You guys get along. There are not these two separate homes. We still do things together.”
It is sad that the positive approach is a weird approach and uncomfortable one to get used to. The negative approach is like, “This fits.”
Here is something that has been brought up to me. By you spending all of this time with them together on holidays, going on a vacation, or coming over for dinner, does it give them hope that you guys will get back together? If you think about it, there is always that hope like, “Mom and Dad are hopefully going to get back together one day.” I get that. I remember thinking that one time. The first time I saw my parents in a room together was my wedding day.
What did you feel?
I was more nervous about that than I was about my wedding. I was like, “Mom, Dad, this is weird.” Don’t forget to have conversations with your kids. Checking in with it and saying, “We are family. We are not going to be together. We are better off not romantically together. We are friends.” The ultimate goal is, can you find a friendship there?
It is a reminder. You don’t want to give them false hope. I understand that. That is where conversations are had. What I keep reiterating is don’t be afraid to talk to your kids about it. Check in with them and get their feedback. You can clear things up with them. You can have those conversations. Another thing that would be brought up is, “That is great, but if you both are in a relationship, I don’t see how that would go over well with the other partner doing these things together.”
That is the goal. He is in a new relationship. You are in a new relationship. You guys cohabitate together, whether it is birthday parties, dinners, or trips. Bringing it to that next level that everybody is comfortable around everybody. That might be a little uncomfortable for the new person coming in, especially if they are divorced from their spouses. Let’s be honest. We are in our 40s. To find a partner who doesn’t have a history of marriage or children, you guys are going to be setting the example quite possibly for those people. That is going to be an adjustment.
Speaking with honesty, I personally haven’t gotten there yet. What I’m saying now is my hope and expectation. As it exists in my life, there might be some changes that have to be made. I will tell you, especially having done the self-work, whoever comes into my life that I see worthy of meeting my children, it would have to be a relationship that is going to be something I see for a long future.
I don’t believe in bringing them around people that I’m dating. I don’t see that. It is one more person out of their life that they might have gotten attached to. That is my personal belief. That is going to be a conversation that will be had with this person. This is what is a priority for me. My kids and how I’m choosing to navigate this is a priority. I will not want to ever give them concern that I’m going to be back with my ex.
Can my ex pop over on a Sunday to hang out with the kids at the pool because he missed them? That probably won’t happen. There will be some alterations made. We can create our family dynamic together. They are going to know that he will be around for the holidays. You are going to have to befriend him. You are going to have to put all of your own insecurities aside. As long as I have given you a reason not to trust, which I wouldn’t, I need you to step up. You don’t have to be best friends, but there needs to be a relationship where it is not an awkward one.
One of the biggest challenges I see when it comes to co-parents is you can have that love for your children and show that love. Your kids need to see that you guys respect each other. I feel that part is often left out. It is easy to say, “We are here. We are going to come from a place of love. The kids come first.” When you have those inner emotions, you don’t like seeing this person in front of your face, it is challenging being around him, and it is coming up with that place of respect for each other, I feel like that doesn’t exist.
What you are saying is you are still being run by your emotions in that situation and doing self-work and a lot of the stuff that we have done. We talk about ego. When you allow any decision of your life for the ego to run your decisions, it is always going to not turn out the way you would like, especially if you like revenge and karma. They are going to get what they get.
You want to feel justified.
Especially when it comes to your kids, what are they gaining from that? It’s for you to feel good for a moment. Normally, you are going to feel bad at a later time. You are like, “I shouldn’t have done that.” Do I get triggered? Yes. That is my emotions running me. That is not the best decision for the kids. What I do is start to think about the good in this person, even though XYZ might be some things that frustrate me and I’m mad about. I’m irritated, and I can’t believe he did this. I have to go, “Let me think about the kids. What does he do for the kids? How does he show up for the kids? How does he show up and support?
I try to think of the good. I can lead with the respect which he deserves. Maybe I don’t respect him as a husband at that moment, but I need to respect him as the father of the children. What is important is when you know that your ego or emotions are leading your decisions, don’t make decisions until you are at a much better place to navigate whatever that is.
When you know that your ego is leading your decisions, then don't make decisions until you're at a much better place to navigate whatever that is. Click To Tweet
Was there ever anything that he came to you and said, “This is going on with little Johnny, and it needs to change?” You saw it in a completely different light and disagreed with him 100%. How did you handle that situation? Have there been any situations?
There have been certain times. It is usually me bringing things to light to him. He is their father. I’m going to listen to the feedback. You might not like it, but we have to come up with a decision to be made together to deal with whatever we have to deal with. I might be frustrated after I share it. He doesn’t see it that way. I’m like, “I’m going to have to navigate this on my own.”
Does that mean that maybe I’m going to have to do a little bit more work to figure it out? Yes. We always end up being on the same page because I have done the research to figure it out. I always talk to him about it. I take a break. I’m pissed off. Eventually, it still needs to be discussed how to navigate it, and I will talk with him about it.
Does he do any research?
When it comes to the things in his life that the strengths are in, and when it comes to their health, I will put that on him. He has brought things to me like, “You are lenient about this. You are not holding them accountable.” I was like, “He is right.” I might say, “The way you handled it was a little harsh.” We talk about it. We get aggravated. It happens. You are not always going to see eye to eye. That sounds great, but you step away, think about it, come back, and figure out what is best for the kids.
Usually, both parties have input that is worth seeing because our one way of only seeing things is not always the best way. It’s almost like I enjoy having another person’s perspective on looking at a scenario. listening to that, thinking about what I think is best, and making that decision. I can’t say that every single time we have navigated, we have both agreed on it wholeheartedly. The bigger things are important. It is not just every day. Stuff is going to happen.
You wanted to touch a little bit more in regards to transitioning. We are talking about transitioning from home to home.
We were fortunate that we had people close to us that went through this already. They did it in a healthy way. That is what motivated me more. Even through the challenging times, I would go back to them for advice. I knew this show was happening. I wanted to get their perspective on things because I think that it was important.
One of the things that were mentioned is saying, “Transitioning from one parent’s home to another can be challenging for children. It takes time for them to adjust to different rules, environments, and parents, but creating a foundation of love and communication at each house can make this adjustment smoother. Open and honest communication, along with respect for one another, is crucial.”
If you can’t make your marriage work, strive to make co-parenting a positive journey for your kids. Discuss the rules of each house and try to keep them consistent. Maintain effective communication between parents because it had never been more important. They already went through the divide. It has never been more important to help them through that transition.
Did those friends that gave you that advice that are mastering this co-parenting? I know that is a big word, but they are doing a great job at co-parenting. Did they come from the same experience that was taught by example? Did they, on their own, say, “We are not going to conform to everybody else’s ways, and we are going do things differently?”
The one parent, their parents are still together. They have never even been a child of divorce. They don’t know what that is like. The other parent, her parents divorced. I don’t know at what age. It is somewhat healthy. It is still divided. They did the normal dividing thing. She doesn’t come from this negative experience as a divorced child.
My husband and I came from unhealthy, not so much from my divorce, but lots of stuff that came from that. We did not want to repeat any of that. From them, it was like, “How can we create this, put the children first, and do what is best for the children, given everything they have gone through in their own challenges in their marriage?” In that relationship, she does have a person in their life. She and her boyfriend do live together. They have been together for a long time. There is another dynamic there. He knows how important it is to co-parent the way they do for the sake of their kids. He is on board with that.
Have you always had this approach even when you guys were in the marriage, and everything was good? The kids don’t need to see the drama. The kids don’t need to be part of it. They don’t need to hear us arguing. They don’t need to see the tension. Did you have to learn by experience and grow?
No. Going from my past, I had to see a lot of things. That would go on between my stepmom and dad. It was an unhealthy relationship. Because of everything I went through in that, I could still bring myself to feel those emotions as a child thinking about it. I did not want that for my kids. You can never want to fight in front of your kids. That is not reality. Arguments are going to happen. Do I think that it is important once it is all done to have a conversation with your kids? You are like, “Daddy and I got into an argument. Sorry, you had to see that. It is a part of navigating relationships. We are good. Everything is okay.”
During that time, I tried not to do all of that in front of the kids all the time because there was a sense of, “If this is my safe space and these are the people that are supposed to keep me safe, and they are not getting along, is everything okay?” I never wanted them to question their security and safety, but there were arguments, or the energy wasn’t that great in the house. That is a part. They need to know there are ways to navigate that. They are going to be in relationships. It is important they see some of those things, but I am not talking badly about them to the kids. We handled what we needed to handle and the best we could not around them.
You had to dive in for your recovery into your emotional part. I know for me, through therapy, I don’t always want to go back to those places because it drums up many emotions, fears, shame, guilt, bitterness, and every single negative emotion you can possibly imagine. My therapist will push me through it. I always feel better coming out the other side. It is incredibly hard at the moment to go back to that place. From a developmental and emotional place, it is the best thing you can do. Keep pushing through those walls.
There is so much dysfunction that I saw as a child in my own home. Don’t get me wrong. There are a lot of amazing memories, but when it comes to my parent’s divorce, there is a lot of dysfunction. I had to work on myself personally. You don’t even realize that when you come from an environment of dysfunction, it lays dormant in you.
You have kids, and it comes out. You are like, “Where did that person come from? I feel justified. I also feel like this is not right.” It is that rollercoaster hamster wheel of emotions, but you are like, “I got to work on some shit.” As a parent, I have had to work through a lot of my personal inner child BS of dysfunction to make sure I’m raising as best as I can healthy kids.
You didn’t think about what you should have worked through before you had kids. There is a lot of that because I don’t think a lot of that shows up until you are a parent yourself. It is the hardest, most rewarding job. I honestly do believe that. My oldest child is my biggest teacher because I see patterns and things that show up for me that I didn’t know existed until I had a kid. It has a lot to do with your own upbringing, childhood, traumas, challenges, and experiences you have gone through.
For the sake of wanting to be the best parent you can, it always comes down to doing the self-work. I’m a part of many groups and teen support groups. I was like, “I don’t know what is wrong with my child.” I will read the story, and it is screaming at me like, “It is you. It is not the child.” That is with any relationship, children, marriage, and friendship. Always be willing to look at yourself first and how you are contributing to whatever the situation is going on.
Wanting to be the best parent you can always come down to doing the self-work. Click To Tweet
Many of us don’t want to look at ourselves. It is easy to blame the other person. You got to take accountability because maybe some of the things you are doing are triggering those responses and reactions. I have been that way for a long time because I have been doing self-improvement and self-work since my mid-twenties. That has been something that helped me navigate many aspects of my life, including friendships, family members, marriage, and children.
I would also say to any couple that it is incredibly beneficial and healthy that before you guys walk down that aisle, go to therapy together. You won’t believe the amount of shit that comes out in therapy. You were like, “Let’s walk through this. Let’s talk through this. Can we navigate this together? Can we handle this together?”
One thing I would have done looking back on is I wish my husband and I had gone to therapy together before we had kids because both of our environments were different. There are a lot of similarities, but how we discipline, how we do this, how we do that, how are you going to take care of this situation if it arises? Having those open discussions is not meant to create a problem. It is meant to learn when this situation arises how we are going to navigate through this as a team.
One thing you shared with me that I loved, which is worth sharing, is that you said, “In my culture and how we grew up, if you went to therapy, that was a hard no.” You would say to me, “Something is wrong with you if you are doing that.” You had this in your head that going to therapy was for weird people.
In the Italian culture, you keep it in the family. You talk about it with your family. The family is talking about family problems. It is not a healthy environment at all. Have a non-biased opinion and outlet outside your family and friends. You can emotionally dump whatever stuff out and get some feedback and direction. Do your work. I have a fantastic one now, but there have been some kooky therapists I have been around. I have walked around out of their office and I’m like, “This isn’t going to work.” Not because they are not giving me the information I want to hear from them. It wasn’t the right dynamic and fit with our personalities.
It has to resonate and feel good. Sometimes you have to go through a couple of different ones, like going through hairdressers. You got to go until it feels right. That is important for anything. I cannot stress enough therapy. We did therapy throughout our marriage. We did therapy before we got married.
Therapy is important because you can get into the rut of a marriage. It is hard to work out and navigate some things when you are both not seeing the other person’s perspective, or you are both emotionally attached to whatever’s going on. It is a lot easier to come up with solutions when you are not emotionally attached to them. Bringing insight from an outside source is always a great idea.
It is always taking into account the other person’s perspective. We are also justified in our thoughts. I’m angry. Even if your kid pisses you off, you did this. We are all so justified in our feelings. You got to take the feelings out of it and look at the picture as a whole. That is a missing part of the equation oftentimes, which gets us all in so much trouble.
I love what you said about how you do these check-ins with your kids. Through navigating this transition of divorce, what is working for you? What is not working for you? We will go over the things that are not working for you. We will make some adjustments. This is the way it needs to stay because we truly do know better, and it is going to be best in the long run. It has an open dialect and communication.
There was something I wanted to highlight. It is another friend of mine. Sadly, I only know two friends of mine that have had healthy divorce dynamics. Their child is fifteen this 2023 and soon to be driving. She lives farther away from his school. His dad lives closer to school. He is in a band. He got stuff going on. He is at an age where a lot more social interaction is happening with friends and hanging out. He said, “Ma, I know it is my time to come. Do I have to come?”
She was 40 minutes away. He was like, “I got a band. I got to do this.” He wanted to be at Dad’s because it was a convenient transition for school or whatever he had going on. Could she go into this emotional space of like, “It’s my time, son. I want to spend time with you. What is wrong? Why don’t you want to be with me?” It doesn’t have anything to do with that.
When we are forcing them, especially at an older age, of where they have to be and what they have to be because this is legally my time, and this is the time I want. We are completely not taking our kids’ feelings into consideration. Do you have to weed out a little bit of that manipulation situation? You want to go over there because I get to stay up later. I get to eat more crap. If it makes sense because of whatever it is that is going on in their world at that time, take their feelings into consideration. You might not get to see them on your time, but this is what is best, and this is what he is asking from you.
It is not a personal attack on anybody. It is the dynamics and the logistics of everything.
We get so into this, “We know what’s best for them.” The older that they get, let them have a voice.
We get wrapped up in knowing what is best for them, but we also need to share with them our side of the story so that they take our side and the manipulation and control that is involved with it. If all of that was left out of it, that is a personal problem within you. I hate to say that bluntly, but I could tell you through all my therapy and challenges that I have had to overcome, I have had to look at myself in the mirror and say, “Bethany, you are the problem.” I got to deal with me.
It is sad that kids often feel shame and guilt because it comes with resentment. They were like, “I don’t even want to be around that parent anymore. You are not going to guilt them even more. It is like the old saying, “If you keep beating a dog, it is going to eventually run away.” It is best to keep that happy, mentally healthy, and open communication relationship, not that you can’t say, “Mommy or Daddy is going through a hard time emotionally. I’m trying my best. I apologize if I stumble and fall.” Share that with your kid. They are people.
It is not needing to know the details of what it is you are going through or why. There were days I was sad. I said, “I’m sad. This is a transition for me like it is a transition for you. I’m going to be okay, but I’m having a bad day.” It was okay to share my feelings. I didn’t need to go into all the details of why I was feeling the way I was feeling because it was mine, not theirs. Why should I put that on them? It lets them know that it is okay to feel these emotions. It is okay to be sad. It is natural.
You mentioned that the kids said something about their dad’s girlfriend. How do you think the kids are going to react when mom has a boyfriend?
That is going to be a little different. My youngest is not understanding the dynamic. I have had those conversations with my oldest because he wants to know if I’m dating and what is going on in my life. Jokingly, I was like, “If it is anyone worthy of you meeting, you will be aware, but if I’m going on dates, it doesn’t have anything to do with us.” He was the protector. He is now the man of the house. He was like, “I’m going to take a videotape of that situation.” I’m like, “You got to trust me. I’m always going to make the best decision. That is for my family.”
I was told a long time ago that he could go and have girlfriends or dates. They don’t look at it as a big deal. The moment the mom did, it was like, “You need time.” Unfortunately, how I see it is they need time to process this divorce. In my personal opinion, that is traumatizing. If that means that I got to live two separate lives, one as a mother, and when I have free time, I do whatever is on the side. That is the way it is going to be for the time being.
How long has it been since you guys went from co-nesting to now, he has moved out?
He officially moved out at the end of 2022.
Do you feel like the kids are adjusted?
Absolutely.
I also have to say that I find it completely amazing that your ex lives close to you. It is a little bike ride away for the kids. You decorated his home to make it a comfortable environment for your children. That is incredible.
It was a joint home. We both thought about who was going to stay and who was going to go. I have more time and am more hands-on with them. It made more sense that I stayed in the family home. Knowing that, I was grateful that was the decision, and I didn’t feel like I had to fight tooth and nail for that. When this decision was made, I wanted to make it special for my kids. I decorated their rooms. I got their opinions about what they wanted. This is their family home as well. It was important for me that they felt the love in there I put in, and it was a place they eventually could feel like it was their home. That was important for me for them.
Do you guys parent the same?
Yes, we do.
A lot of the time, you guys are on the same page.
Hopefully, when you were married, that was the case. I can only imagine that if you are living under the same roof and you are completely different, that would have caused a lot of challenges. One person is usually leading the dynamic on how to navigate that.
I keep trying to push it off. I don’t want to lead anymore. My husband will often say, when it comes to the kids, “You wear the pants.” I keep telling him, “You can have them. I don’t want them.” Let’s be honest. As the mother, you take over the role of the school, volunteering, helping, the sports, and signing them up. It is that natural flow when it comes to discipline or navigating emotions. Plus, that is the maternal role. Whenever he wants the pants, take them. I will pull those things off damn fast.
Naturally, as they are young, they need moms more. Whatever it is, it is. The man is there. They have their specific roles. As the children get older, you will start to see that connection grow. We lead that. We had the basis. We chose to eat the same way. Having a child and all of the new things that happen as they are growing, like my oldest child, it’s my first time parenting a teenager. I’m navigating a whole new world.
I’m asking other parents and looking at books. I would bring a lot to him. This is how I want to handle this. This is what I want to do. If he has a difference of opinion, we will talk about it. Not everything is going to happen the same way. I had to let go of my control, knowing that in his home, things were going to be done a little differently.
It is not on the exact schedule I would want it to be, but that is the beauty of the building that bond together. They build their own routine. I have my own routine. Routines are not going to look the same. The core general decisions that have to be made about their life have to be made together. When it comes to bigger decisions, we can’t make big decisions unless both parties approve that.
I have often heard from friends, clients, and family that when you have a divorced parent dynamic of two separate homes, there is always this transition period when a kid comes back into your home. Fear is a little strong of a word. It is like the FOMO, the Fear Of Missing Out at Mom’s or Dad’s house. They get this anxiety built up in them. They don’t know how to regulate their emotions. It comes out. Have you found that with your kids? How have you dealt with that?
I am starting to see some things, and I have to remind myself, “We are in transition. I got to be a little bit more patient with some of the behaviors and not be frustrated. The way they are with their father, they are different from me and vice versa. I’m a little bit more relaxed about certain things. They will have more of a say or talk back. They go over to Dad’s, and Dad does not have as much acceptance over that. They are like, “I got to reel that back in.”
There is a transition period. I haven’t been able to tell you that I have all these tips and tricks other than having more patience and understanding that you are in transition. Things will go back to a little bit of that normalcy that you have. We are fortunate that we do navigate parenting in a similar way. It is not completely opposite.
I have heard some explosive moments for parents with their children. It seems heartbreaking and frustrating. It is hard to navigate through.
I hear nightmare situations, and it breaks my heart. I’m always like, “If I could get both of them in the room with me to help in any way.” Sometimes there is that parent that hasn’t done the work to work through their emotional stuff of whatever is allowing them. They are leading in parenting withholding, and that breaks my heart.
Continue on your journey. Do the best that you can. Educate yourself through that dynamic. Keep working on them and making the child be the center of any decisions in hopes that they eventually will start to make those changes knowing that it is best for the kids. I know my story is not for everyone’s situation, but for anyone going through it or thinking about going through it, there is such a healthier way to do it than what the common go-to is for the word divorce.
Continue on your journey. Do the best that you can. Educate yourself through that dynamic. Keep working on them and making the child be the center of any decisions. Click To Tweet
I cannot thank you enough for sharing your story with us. Is there anything you want to end on?
I feel like I said everything I wanted to say.
You had some great podcasts and books. I want to get those from you.
I can do that.
Thank you again. For any of you guys that have some amazing tips for kids who have been through a divorce, please share them with us. You can email me at SlimeInMyStilettos.com or private message me on Instagram @SlimeInMyStilettos, and I look forward to hearing those.
Thank you.
Important Links
- @SlimeInMyStilettos – Instagram
- https://www.Amazon.com/Conscious-Parents-Guide-Coparenting-Collaborative-ebook/dp/B01FYF58MU/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3KZTQ54M1PXUY&keywords=the+conscious+parents+guide+to+coparenting&qid=1690458901&sprefix=coparenting+the+con%2Caps%2C103&sr=8-1
- https://www.Amazon.com/Moms-Moving-Conquering-Co-Parenting-Conflict/dp/B099BRVPV2/ref=sr_1_1?crid=BTI1O75O1X2O&keywords=moms+moving+on&qid=1690459013&sprefix=moms+moving+on%2Caps%2C100&sr=8-1